Al McBride 0:00
Music. Welcome to the dealing with Goliath podcast, the mission of dealing with Goliath is to sharpen the psychological edge and negotiation ethical influencing and high impact conversations for business leaders who want to be more effective under pressure, uncover hidden value and build greater connection, all while increasing profitability. This is the short form espresso shot of insight, podcast interview to boost business performance using our five questions in around about 15 to 20 minutes format, my guest today is Christine Campbell. Rapid. Christine is an energetic tell it like it is, business advisor, mentor, consultant, speaker and three time international best selling author to date, she supported over 400 companies to create a combined revenue more than $1 billion and believes business growth can be elegantly simple when you focus on the three non negotiable business foundations that build a client growth engine. Christine, welcome to the show.

Christine Campbell Rapin 1:04
Thank you very much. Excited to be here.

Al McBride 1:06
Well, I’m excited to dive into some of the things you just mentioned there. It’s pretty exciting stuff. So first of all, let’s lay the groundwork so just so people know who you’re working with and whatnot, and who you’re helping, who is your ideal client and what is usually the biggest challenge that they’re facing.

Christine Campbell Rapin 1:24
You know, my clients are service providers. They’re typically in the business to business arena, and they have had proof of concept. They have had sales in their business. But what their big challenge is, is they have started to grow disconnected to the next client. And so they what might be encountering a sophomore slump, where it’s like, wow, when’s the last time we had new business coming into our arena? Or truthfully, they feel like they want to head in a new direction, and they’re like, I don’t know how to get into the right room to find the next client. And so many people think that the focus is go to your current clients, go to your past clients. And I said there is good gold there for lots of things, but it isn’t always the best indicator of where will you find your next client. And if you’re not sure, it’s a really scary place, because guess what? Your bills don’t come when you have clients. They come every month. And so the longer you have this panic or this I don’t know what to do, and I can’t see the forest for the trees, it creates a really big spin cycle. And I will tell you, you don’t have to, but you do have to get really clear on who’s the next client. Know that intersection point so you can identify them quickly, and, more importantly, start to move them into your world, and that’s key part of, of course, getting to, yes,

Al McBride 2:44
it’s a fascinating thing. So just to clarify on that, because it’s a very interesting, well, it’s thought provoking for me. So is it, is it that the they’re outgrowing their current clients, or is it that they were using maybe some good will, some good word of mouth, their initial connections, and that started to dry up, and now they have to actually do some other forms of client attraction.

Christine Campbell Rapin 3:12
It can be a couple of things. Yes, you certainly can outgrow your past clients when that happens, truthfully, what it means is you got bored with them and business. A lot of people go into business thinking it’s this constant game of creation. And I will say creation can actually kill your business. Business is about stability. It is about falling in love with a client that you are not going to get bored with. And so when people say, I outgrow my clients, truthfully, I often say you are self sabotaging this. Let’s just be really clear what you want to grow to. Because, yes, you can expand value creation, but often it can happen where you get bored, frustrated and desire a sparkly new thing that can be number one. The other thing that can happen, truthfully, is the market is moving, and you feel not in a good way old and out of touch with what the current realities are, because you live in a utopian in the ecosystem of clients who already bought something, and if you fall out of sync with what the market is asking for. And that could be pace, it could be style, it could be results. Could be a lot of different drivers, but the moment you do, you become like ships in the night. You just pass each other. And the key thing, when you’re really breaking down who is your next client is it’s an intersection point. It’s a pinpoint of time in a continuum that your client is walking. And if you’re not really clear where it is, you start to answer the question before it’s asked, and often what it looks like in your marketing and in your sales process and in your general outreach, it starts to be assumptive that you are wanting to tell somebody how. Fix something, and you haven’t made a lot of assumptions that they’re like, I haven’t asked you,

Al McBride 5:06
right, right? So there’s this growing disconnect. As I say, Absolutely, there’s this growing disconnect that’s very interesting, and you speak of it in a very compelling way. So I’m wondering when people are are having this disconnect for various reasons with their clients, for all the reasons that you just mentioned, what are the common mistakes people make when they’re trying to resolve that? So it’s obviously quite uncomfortable for them, whether they think I’ve outgrown the clients or the clients are asking for things that they’re like, oh, I don’t know. We don’t we don’t really provide that. So what do they usually go to first? And I mentioned this because some people out there listening or watching this might be thinking, Ah, I’ve done that. So what are some of those telltale signs?

Christine Campbell Rapin 5:52
The most common for sure, is that they think the answer is to double down on a tactic or to change tactic. So that’s a colossal mistake, in my not humble opinion. Truthfully, it’s not going to be solved by a tactic, because I always say to people, and having worked with so many clients in so many different industries and so many places, all the tactics work. If it’s not working for you, the answer is not tactic. Truthfully, when you hit this pregnant pause, or you start to go into that slump period, or feel like the stretch is starting to get discomforting in your client growth numbers a you know, business is a numbers game. The big mistake is tactic. I say you have to pull back to strategy. And often, when you’re in a business, you get so much into the habit that you just do what you do, because you’ve always done it, and then you think the answer is, well, I just need to somebody said SEO is the thing of the flavor. And somebody said I need to be on Tiktok. And somebody said I need to be fill in the blank, right, slow down, would be my advice. Because truthfully, what when you are at a place of disconnection, you’re going to be looking at tactics as band aids when maybe you need open heart surgery, and that can lead you to totally bleeding out, if I just follow the analogy on that. I know I just had to roll all the way down that path, but you’ve got to pull back to strategy. You have to ask, Who are we? What do we stand for you? Then have to think, where do we want to play? Because you’re looking for that really pinpointed intersection, you need to think about, how will we win? And that’s an internal conversation. It’s not replicate what’s in the marketplace. Look to our competitor set, because you could be following your competitor right off a cliff Exactly. Because people often show I’m a lot more getting it, getting it together, than it really maybe am. And you’ve got to think, where do we want to play? How do we want to win? And then the question is to ask, what do we need, skills, capability and capacity wise, to execute a strategy. And then you add your tactic. And I honestly tell people, the fewer the tactics, the better. Absolutely, have to ask for the tactic you’re running,

Al McBride 8:07
absolutely. But it’s fascinating that you go right back, and you actually go beyond back to the strategic because you’re talking in some ways there you mentioned, essentially values. What do we stand for? What are we actually about, and having that as probably a big part of your differentiator, that you know what you stand for and what you don’t. And that clarifies a lot of points from that. But also, I love the way you know what the values and then to the vision where, what, where do we want to play? What do we want to build? What do we want to create? And just even those two points can create a certain level of clarity right off the bat, fascinating stuff. And as you said, build a strategy in the broad from there and only then at the very end, go into the tactics that suit so with that, because there is a lot there, what is one valuable free action that the audience can implement that will help with this issue,

Christine Campbell Rapin 8:58
the first thing I want to invite you to do is actually recognize you do need to build clarity. And I love that you talk about it is a journey. It is not a destination. You do not get clarity because you called a staff meeting, set in a day in your agenda where you’re going to take your favorite notebook to go to Starbucks to figure this out. The challenge is, when you are in a gap, you cannot see your own blind spot. If you knew what to change, you would change it. You’re a bright, capable, successful business, and people around you are bright, capable and thinkers and creators. The truth is you need right now to have a conversation with somebody who has your best interest at heart, who will ask you tough questions and will hold space for you to start peeling that onion, because it is a simple question to be asked. Who are you? What do you stand for? And you asked, who I serve? And I said, business owners in the B to B space. Let’s just be clear. People hire you for your opinion, your intellectual way you pull together patterns, the way you see the marketplace. You are a forecaster. That’s why your value is tied to intellect. That’s the service business I support. So you need to spend some time getting clear on what you want to say, because it’s easy to say something, and I’m like a toddler with my clients, sounds good? Is it true? And in the world of AI where you think the answer is, well, just tell me what the market wants to hear, and I’ll regurgitate it you and the other 100,000 business owners to ask the same prompt, you have to really recognize you need a thinking partner. You need somebody, I said, Who is not tied to your outcome, but tied to who you are becoming and will help you do that, because that is the shortcut. And everyone goes, God, that sounds like work. You can choose the speech. Travel. Business is elegantly simple. It is not effortless. But these are questions, and I think it’s important to say, you know, the you ask these questions, yes, when you’re in this period of small panic, growing to big panic, but you should be asking this regularly, like I have a discipline in my business, and I coach this to my clients. We do this all the time. Are we in alignment? Where do we want to go? What are we standing for? Are we serving who we want are we getting bored? And I always tell my clients, your goal is to get to 80% capacity in the things that your business is known for. That does leave 20% for creativity, for taking time out of your business, for having a wild flyer. It is not the day to day, because constant creation honestly kills your momentum. People don’t know who you are. They don’t know what you stand for. They don’t know why you they’d hire you. And it feels like, while you’re interesting, maybe I’m not going to put money in your pocket. And that’s the real difference. When you are working with a thinking partner, they’re going to challenge you. I would challenge you. Are you a likable expert or the most hire. Why would I hire you to do what? What do you stand for? How do I know I’m in the right room with you? When you do that, it becomes a real engine. But you get to choose your speed, and you will need to course correct on time. Absolutely,

Al McBride 12:15
it’s fascinating stuff. This was often an issue I found, particularly with professional services. So your classic accountants, lawyers, these sort of services where you’d ask them, why would someone go to you rather than your competitor across the street or three streets over, and they say bland things like, oh, customer service, or we care about this. Do you? You know, and it just sounds completely generic. And this was the point, they usually didn’t have an answer. And it is, we talked about this before this. The classic thing is, you know, business really is, is innovation and marketing, and in the marketing, you describe how you’re different and how that innovation might be beneficial. And I know I’m oversimplifying, but that that really is in a nutshell. It’s like, where are you different? And then highlight the difference, how that is benefit to the to the client, how that helps them better than somebody else. And you’re a good chunk of the way there. So I love that. I love what you’re saying, because it is, as you said, a tough question. A lot of people want to make it super complex. They don’t get the core, core thing there. So what might be one valuable, free resource that you could direct people to that would help them along those lines?

Christine Campbell Rapin 13:28
Well, the first thing I did talk about the fact that you do need to choose a tactic, but you need to pull back to strategy. So I have a resource people right now often say, Well, where do I find my next client? Like that, like the panic, depending on your level of gap, it’s high. And so I have a resource. It’s called 25 ways to find your next buyer. There are 25 ways right now in the marketplace that are working. So you want to know where it’s working, I will tell you the answer. It’s where it’s working. But in that resource, I all also have some really important reminders about who is a buyer, because your goal in in this place of needing new clients, which every business on the planet needs, you’ve got to understand that you’re looking for a buyer of today. That little, small, little of today is the thing that so many people are missing. They get caught in the slow lane of the someday client. They’re thinking, you know, I’m going to be educating. And I said you’re educating, but people don’t pay for knowledge. It’s still the business like and lots of knowledge is free in today’s marketplace. Who is the buyer of today? Who’s the unicorn buyer? What three attributes make a buyer? And it’s going to be in this resource so that you can read the resource. First thing really think about, are you in front of buyers and adjust accordingly, and then pick the lane that feels like you. How do you want to go to market to win? And so it’s a free resource. It’s going to help answer the question that you want to know is, what do I need to do to get it and then I’m going to. So not only just meet you where you are, but I’m going to raise you to where you start to see the implementation and results. Find the buyer, choose your lane, run the strategy and stay in the game.

Al McBride 15:10
Awesome stuff. And where? Where can people find that? So

Christine Campbell Rapin 15:14
you can find it at my home page. Christine Campbell, rappin.com, it’s right at the top. It’s 25 ways to attract your next client.

Al McBride 15:21
Outstanding. Stuff outstanding. So what would be your number one insight or principle on how to negotiate, build rapport and connection, or uncover hidden value with clients?

Christine Campbell Rapin 15:35
This is so simple, but truth you gotta remember that people do business with people. The fastest way to client growth is conversation. You need to talk to people as people, not without an not with this agenda of, let me go again, jumping prematurely to the how I can solve your unicorn when you haven’t asked me a single question. I always think to me, the way you negotiate with somebody else is to understand? What do they value? What do they stand for? Where are they connected, and why are the gaps there? And you do that by conversation. And I think that this is so undervalued in the space of AI and in the space of automation, remember, especially because I’m coming from the place of talking to service based businesses, people hire you for your opinion. They need to know what it is, and you need to recognize not everyone’s going to get your opinion. Abide by your opinion, share your opinion, and how you show up as human is the biggest competitive advantage ever, and it is only getting more and more valued in the marketplace. If you can show up in conversation that is live in real time, because it’s not artificially polished, you can drop your filters and be as more true, and it will move you faster. So pick up the phone, go have a face to face conversation, and get really clear that while you have something valuable to say, your biggest impact is felt by listening and understanding the other party.

Al McBride 17:15
Absolutely, absolutely so we’re we’re once again aligned on all this Christine, as we have been on previous conversations, and it’s something that, as you said, I kind of forget that people don’t have that perspective, because usually a lot of people that I work with are kind of halfway there. They’re on board that train, but they’re want to do it better, right? But it’s very interesting to hear that you mean, there are people left still don’t do that. It’s it is kind of a surprise to me. But of course, there are,

Christine Campbell Rapin 17:44
and everyone’s automating it now, like you’re automating your sequences your autumn. And I get that don’t for the gain of efficiency, forget that one person, one conversation, one right buyer and one offer is how business is built. Absolutely it only takes the power of one. And I think in our world of automation, and especially in the younger demographics that are coming into the workspace, whether that is as entrepreneurs or as employees, their answer is, text me, yeah, that they don’t have necessarily the communication skills. And honestly, I think you know people that will help support communication skills and navigating critical conversations and navigating conflict like that is such an important business right now, because truthfully, we are asking at every age, how do I make friends? How do I connect to another human being? How do I influence other people? And you know, we talk about my business, I always start with the three non negotiable foundations. Who’s your next buyer? How will you move them? That’s the strategy piece and what makes you the must hire. But there’s two other key components to every business owner. Number four is leadership of self of clients, to get the results of team to influence and, of course, your vendors and advocates. Number five is business is math. Do you know? Do you run it like a business? Do you treat it like a business? Not rocket science, but it is remarkable how many people miss the basics, and when there’s a gap, it is always because you can’t see your blind spot. And if you have one and you’re aware of it, this is the invitation and the rallying cry, solve it. Use your brain power, solve it. And sometimes the answers are obvious. It doesn’t mean you’re going to love them. That might mean you put skin in the game. You might hire other people. You might have to get asked, Who are you? What do you send for? It’s worth every business owner out there. That’s the question I always ask. I’m a fuel source. I’m a mentor. I’m a fuel source to you, but I am not the one who likes to spark you are. So if you want to run at something, you have to tell me it’s worth it for you do. Which means you have to slow down enough to not worry about the shiny tactic and the next great idea, but to sit with that Who are you, and that’s an onion you have to do layer by layer, because people will tell you, I tell you you always you can use those words that clarity is really compelling.

Al McBride 20:18
Absolutely know exactly who they serve and what’s the change they bring them. Yeah,

Christine Campbell Rapin 20:24
because people, people love clarity. It is magnetic. It’s an energy in the market. People like, Huh? It sounds like you really know something. I want to know more simple, but curated and cultivated. It doesn’t start because you decided to do it. It’s dead on Tuesday at two o’clock because, you know, it’s the day I decided to go spend time on this. It’s an evolution. But start

Al McBride 20:50
evolution and start today. And as you said, that that great way to start is, is on your website. Website. Christine Campbell, rapin, so. Wrapping Robin. Robin Christine, outstanding stuff. Where can people reach you if they want to learn more about you? Because I know you have a load of different resources on your website. You’ve also, as we said, we’re the author of three international best selling books. Is there anything else, anywhere else who is about is LinkedIn the best. I know you’re very active in LinkedIn. Yeah, you can absolutely

Christine Campbell Rapin 21:22
come find me on LinkedIn. The easiest thing I will tell you, and there’s a simple you can pay attention. This is a really good hint. You can find me at Christine Campbell wrapping everywhere. Find me on my website. You can link to all my social channels. LinkedIn is my most prevalent channel. I have, as you kindly indicated, I have resources for you. I have a podcast, I have free events, I have lots of resources. I’m going to invite you at every time to build your foundations. So come find me. It’s not complicated,

Al McBride 21:52
astounding stuff on that note, say thank you very much. Christine,

Unknown Speaker 21:56
thank you for having me. Great

Al McBride 21:58
having you on the show today. Cheers,

Unknown Speaker 22:00
cheers. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai