How to Achieve Flow State and Master Productivity with Alistair McBride
This was a guest appearance I made on the Recognized Authority Podcast with Alastair McDermott…
You can view Alastair’s Full Page here: https://therecognizedauthority.com/achieve-flow-state-and-master-productivity/
Listen to the Episode Here: https://pod.co/marketing-for-consultants/how-to-achieve-flow-state-and-master-productivity-with-alistair-mcbride
What does “flow” mean, and does it really improve productivity?
Alastair McDermott and Alistair McBride discuss flow state and deep work in episode 118 of The Recognized Authority.
They discuss practical tips for optimizing your morning routine and tackling high-value tasks for maximum impact.
Explore the cost of context switching and the importance of uninterrupted blocks of time for deep work. Gain valuable insights into the concept of “be-do-have,” shifting from the mindset of “If I could just have (insert thing), I’d do more (work) and be a real (noun).”
They discuss productivity and performance, and how to make leaps of improvement rather than settling for incremental progress.
This episode will change how you think about deep work, your approach to tasks, and unlock your potential for success.
feel, identity, morning routine, people, point, called, work, book, interesting, tasks, flow, writing, podcast, state, expert, client, talking, word, productivity, day
Alistair McBride, Voiceover, Alastair McDermott
Welcome to The Recognized Authority, a podcast that helps specialized consultants and domain experts on your journey to become known as an authority in your field. Here’s your host, Alastair McDermott.
Alastair McDermott 00:11
Today we’re going to talk about mental barriers and hurdles and productivity, and lots of interesting things around that, because we already had a bit of a chat in the pre show. Oh, you’re very welcome. This is I don’t know, your fourth or fifth time on the podcast.
Alistair McBride 00:24
Always a pleasure a few times, we have so much interesting stuff to talk about. But let’s have these conversations and go oh, no, we should have hit record, you know.
Alastair McDermott 00:32
Yeah. So just for context, just for context for the listener, like we know each other. For years now, probably decades. At this point, we have a call on a regular basis, maybe every two or three weeks, depending on our schedules. And yes, sometimes those calls are very interesting. And that’s why I wanted to get you into the recording studio and just record some of the stuff that we’re talking about. Because I think it’s, it’s really interesting. I do have one thing I want to do before we do that, because this is this is the first time on this podcast I’ve ever done this. But we have a sponsor. So I want to do a sponsor segment. So this show is sponsored by authority clips daily. And why this is different is because it’s actually an offering from me on my team. So authority clips daily is a service that takes your long form content, like zoom calls, and podcast recordings, podcasts videos, and turns it into daily clips that can go on your social media. So that’s something that I’ve been working on for quite a while. And I’ll you’ve given me some great feedback on that, as well. So appreciate that.
Alistair McBride 01:39
Well, just a word on that, you know, you went through with me all the steps, you take all of the learning curves you’ve gone through in making the resulting videos just better and better and better. And the amount of effort to to get to that level of quality is really quite something. So you know, I think you’re very generous giving away the outline of how people can do it themselves. Because think after they read it, a lot of people think it’s easier just to just act. So it’s up to you, you and your team. As I said, to get this the similar level of professional looking results, it really is quite super. So
Alastair McDermott 02:18
be Yeah, I mean, like, the thing for me about this is that so many people who are experts have all this knowledge to share. But it takes so much time to package it up and put it out onto social media, particularly on a regular consistent basis. And that’s the hard part. It’s, it’s okay, like, we can do a recording like this and do a one off thing and commit to that maybe, you know, a couple of times a month, but actually every day go and have put a video up. That’s that’s the hard part. But that’s what we need to do in order to have this larger social reach. And to start to like build an audience and build a reputation.
Alistair McBride 02:56
Absolutely. Look, all of this is the whole point of getting those leads in, you know, so like, Let’s not mess around. That’s what it’s for. It’s not just for
Alastair McDermott 03:03
Oh, absolutely. It’s like it’s, it’s designed to, it’s designed to grow your reach. So people start to see you everywhere, all the time. And I’m getting that from people now. Because I’m putting out a clip every single day on five different social networks. And so it’s you know, you get this, you get this just kind of aggregated effect where people just feel like they’re seeing you all the time. So I think it’s I think it’s good.
Alistair McBride 03:30
As I say, Look, we’re not we’re not here, just to just to plug that just to point out to people that it is it’s an excellent service. And it looks like the podcast, as you know, I’m a huge fan of the podcast, have to take alias for dealing with Goliath podcast. And, you know, for the same reasons as your clips, because it’s enjoyable to do. And it’s the easiest way to get quality content out as fast as possible. Really, it’s just that beautiful 8020 of how to create decent content that people actually want to engage with and find interesting. So it’s the extension of that really doing the shorter clips.
Alastair McDermott 04:09
Yeah. I didn’t intend to turn this into into a huge pitch for for that was supposed to be a short sponsor sponsor. So too bad like, yeah, yeah, but thank you. So one of the one of the reasons why I think those short clips are important, apart from the fact that all of the social media channels are just promoting short clips, like you’ll see them everywhere, on Instagram and TikTok are in a kind of a war for attention there. But it’s because of YouTube shorts, right? Yeah. YouTube shorts. Absolutely. And and the reason why is because people love those little bite size learnings where they can learn something really quickly or get entertained really quickly and they can just watch something short. And so if you can take your longer you know your your longer expertise Just educational type content, and just cut out a small piece of that. And just it becomes a teaser. It just becomes a teaser for somebody who say, You know what, I want to learn more about that. I want to listen more to that. And they go and they find your long form stuff. So that’s kind of what it’s about. But I apologize, we kind of went a bit bit bit further into that than I meant to. What I wanted to talk to you about was actually dealing with Goliath, but not the podcast, because your book is also going to be called dealing with Goliath, right?
Alistair McBride 05:26
That’s right. Dealing with Goliath the psychological edge in negotiation for business owners. Yes.
Alastair McDermott 05:35
We did talk about negotiation. So I just want to tell people, we’re not going to get into negotiation too much today. But you can listen to episode 104, where we talked about negotiation specifically. But what we what we were talking about earlier, that was really fascinating was, we were talking about your book, and we’re talking about productivity. And that’s what led us down a rabbit hole that said, Hey, we got to get in record. Right. So can you just tell me a little bit about about your, your recent thinking around productivity?
Alistair McBride 06:07
Yeah, so I suppose the recent experiences around it as much as thinking there were one in the same you might say, in that I was recently watching a video, again, a short video, it was I think it was 30 to 50 seconds, something like that. I think it was on LinkedIn, I found that that brought me to a longer video 10 minutes on YouTube. But I knew the context of what was going on. It was from the flow genome collective anybody knows that. So the flow genome collective do all this research into flow states where people are all that stuff where who say like they’re in the zone, you know, they’re in the pocket, they have all these different phrases for births, where you’re, you’re hyper focused to highly productive and or highly creative, depending on, on on the domain in which your flow state. It was called flow, because in the original research, that’s what people kept calling it. Anyway, what he was talking about this time, this is a fellow Irishman. Actually, Rhian Doris, who’s out in LA is a newer neuroscientist. And he works with Steven Kotler, who’s known as the author of Mandy’s books around flow. You know, the art of the impossible and various other things. Can’t remember half as others books now but he’s he’s quite an excellent writer. But this rien doors trap was talking about morning routines for productivity. Now, you know, this is a big thing that, you know, Tim Ferriss, and all these other oh, what’s your morning routine, and it’s all very, go getter stuff. And what’s interesting that he was talking about was he was talking about, you know, people often, in a lot of realms fall into one of two camps, you know, on the one hand, you have the kind of the biohacker ones who are everything’s optimized, and, you know, they’re, they’re doing their, you know, their breathing exercise, new yoga, or their fitness routine, first thing at bed, and then it’s all nutrition, this and all the rest of it. And, and that can be that has its benefits, but often people you know, can go overboard, and it can be hours before they even start their actual work day. So it’s not maybe brilliant for productivity. On the other hand, then you have all the people who, as he said, When he went out to LA, and through the flow research, was starting to talk to these massively productive either athletes or massively productive billionaires, like these people, just particularly the business side who were being just crazy level of productivity, what they’re getting out of their day. And if they didn’t know this, they had none of this sort of, you know, yoga smoothie starts of the day or as their stuff instead, they literally got straight out of bed and straight to the computer. Now, that doesn’t sound terribly healthy. But what was interesting was they got vast amounts done in that first particular first 90 minutes to three hours, that was where they have dropped almost straight into flow state, and got huge amounts done. But then when they kept trying to keep going on it, they would have gotten, you know, less and less, and go further and further and accelerate them toward burnout and this sort of stuff. So not healthy at doing that extreme of that of the spectrum either. And long story short, what they discovered was, you kind of need a balance of both. So the irony is a lot of these things were you know, you’re you’re getting in the right state and you’re doing super healthy things to be in the optimal state for the day. You already have when you wake up, right, you’re already in that flow state, which is, you know, close to the theater dream, likely, you’re still in an element of that as you’re waking up. As we all know, you’re half asleep half awake, you know, a lot of times for some people that that lasts longer than others, I think, but it’s that which we do couldn’t actually channel by getting straight to the task at hand. Now, it’s important, as I said, an open experience I think with this for the last while, and I have to say it’s really shut my productivity up. And it makes me feel like I’ve got a whole lot done. Even if I’m only getting an hour, sometimes I get to that 90 minutes or two hour point, I rarely get to the three hour point without needing a break. But it’s been hugely impactful for me in getting those last Sprint’s at the book don’t, because the book is nearly finished. There’s lots of little things that I need to tweak and, and kind of like how do I bridge that with that and all that sort of little fun stuff. But when you’re finishing a book, as you well know, I’ve done a few of them yourself. And this the point is drop using that state to drop straight in there get productive now, one of the key things that I’ve been less successful at which has helped it was much better this morning, is when I set out to clear tasks that I need to do so you can go straight into doing it. Not wondering what I should do. That’s a huge, huge truck, because then you’re using a very much a different part of your brain almost the admin part yeah, the, like creative part. So
Alastair McDermott 11:01
it sounds if we go to the Michael Gerber, visionary manager, technician, your manager, your technician is at the keyboard in the morning, but the manager the night before it needs to set out what the tasks are.
Alistair McBride 11:16
Exactly, beautifully put. That’s exactly it. And when you do that, then look, this is a good idea anyway, you know, this goes back to Joker, you know, going set out before you finish when you finish the last the previous evening, set out what you’re going to do the next day. So you can go straight into it. This is the extreme version of that where you really are adapting falling much more easily because for most people, it takes a good while and it’s also situational stuff. Flow doesn’t happen. Or flow only happens by accident doesn’t happen by design. And this is why people are like, oh, yeah, I know, you know, the way that time you get that three hours, that 90 minutes we go, oh my god, I got more done in that 90 minutes, really than I did in the rest of the whole week. Yeah. And you go, how can you get more of that it is the 8020 There’s a 20% or 4% of time, which makes, you know, two thirds of your results is the 8020 of the 8020. Like a snack compounded time compressed that is hugely productive. So
Alastair McDermott 12:13
yeah, what’s interesting here is, if I understand you correctly, so what you’re saying is that a lot of these morning routines, pull us away from that flow state, because you take so much time, and you’re also going into that manager mindset. And when you’re doing that, so you’re actually getting pulled away from see you’re waking up, and you’ve gotten away with like the millionaire morning routine, or whatever they call it, you know, all that kind of stuff,
Alistair McBride 12:43
meditating. And you mentioned that you know, you’ve
Alastair McDermott 12:45
to go to the gym, do yoga, meditate, have a bulletproof coffee, and all of that, read a book and you do all this before you go to work. It’s like, I’d be finished my workday at that point.
Alistair McBride 12:55
Really Exactly. This is the point is that then then you mentioned start your workday. Where is the real insight for me was, well, let’s be honest, it’s different if you know, you have to, you know, turn up in a certain time, a certain place and do a certain thing. But usually, if you’re a business owner, if you’re in more control of your own time, than maybe your standard office worker, which I think a lot of your listeners are in that boat. That this is it, you utilize harness that natural inclination to fall back into the flow state, it’s no you’re not asleep or anything. But you’re able to, to use that state, which all those are the routines are trying to get you into anyway. So use that for whatever it is the hour and 90 minutes, even up to three hours, then take a break. Right? Then you go into some of your morning routine where you do the healthier things to actually reset. Because here’s the other thing to avoid that the billionaire problem of avoiding the burnout is that you take that break to actually allow a bit of recuperation, which is key. You know, because an awful lot of these high performance hard charger types. That’s what they find the hardest is actually switching off. And being intermittent in it so that you do a high intensive blast of what I used to call one of my podcasts ages ago was maker time versus manage your time. So manage your time it can be measured in blocks of 10 or 15 minutes, right? Because they’re short tasks of sudden email, reply to email or whatever that is, and all the other sort of plotting stuff. Right. But the maker time you need usually blocks of 90 to 90 minutes to three hours. Yeah. Right and it’s using that earlier maker time but that you’ve managed earlier, as you said that you’ve set all the managers set up the time the app in a setup for the maker then do it first thing in the morning. And then we have this huge boost of well creativity and productivity to start your day. And what an amazing place to start that. So it’s like doing the, you know, again, one of the fire of a lot of people’s routine is gratitudes. Right? But granted, what is gratitude, gratitude is to feel wealthy. To feel inherently like you’re starting from a height of all of this stuff that you have going on, that’s really positive, constructive, right? But that’s what you’re building physically have you just built that experience beforehand? Right, so that afterwards, when you’re doing the recuperation, then you’re able to reset, recalibrate, that’s where then you do in your gym and your yoga, your whatever, whatever works for you meditation, gratitude, exercise, journaling, you name it, whatever those things that a lot of people want to do is superb at resetting, that mental headspace for you to then do a potentially another blast, whether that’s in the afternoon, whenever suits you, you know, depending on what client work we have, we have to have direct meetings and whatnot, but it allows you to actually have the best of both worlds. Yeah, so it’s been very interesting, as it said, for
Alastair McDermott 16:03
product. So like one thing that you talked about, and I guess just to make it a very practical to bring back to a very practical example. I did this completely inadvertently. But when I was writing the book and trying to get it finished, I was getting up about three hours before I normally got up out of bed, I was getting up and I was working for an hour to two hours, just writing. And I would write because I actually have my stats. In the spreadsheet, I was writing between 509 100 words, typically in that period, and obviously be some going back and editing other stuff. So the word count isn’t the perfect tracker. But that allowed me to do about let’s say an average of 700 words a day. And and then I would go back to bed for an hour, and then get up and just on my regular day.
Alistair McBride 16:58
But this is what reminded me this is how we started the conversation before we hit record, which was that said I took a leaf at a yearbook because I know you used to do that with projects years ago where you’d wake up, oh, I couldn’t really sleep. So I got up at 6am or 5am or whatever, for whatever it was. And you do a couple of hours and then go back to Yeah, I always remember he used to do that. Not all the time, but you know, regularly. So it’s sort of like, Oh, hey, McDermott was off.
Alastair McDermott 17:28
Yeah, completely inadvertently. But obviously, there’s a header is it just there’s a reason or a logic behind it working? So okay, so that’s one thing is, is this kind of productivity of maybe if you have a long morning routine, then maybe look at curtailing it and getting straight into work for a little bit. And then going and doing your morning routine after that, to give yourself a break?
Alistair McBride 17:55
Absolutely, no, I don’t know how that all that stuff balances if people have kids and all sorts of other.
Alastair McDermott 18:00
Yeah, this is this is where all of these things meet reality. And then it suddenly becomes a whole different different situation creative
Alistair McBride 18:07
with it, you know, creative and utilizing that. So if you get up and you do your morning routine, push that to later after the kids go and do the writing or whatever the creative product of tasks. That’s it’s basically the tasks of highest value that we’re talking about. We’re not talking about admin, we’re talking about replying to emails, you know, it’s all that stuff, which will be left till later anyway,
Alastair McDermott 18:29
in the kind of the Perry Marshall universe, these would be your $1,000 An hour type tasks or more
Alistair McBride 18:36
or $10,000 an hour tasks? Yeah, absolutely. It’s, you know, look, a lot of these people that we know, like and trust. It turned to her talk and similar conceptual terms as pairing goals, you know, Renaissance time later, when you’re reflecting and you’re planning has its time as well as the the admin time. There’s the sympathy, the maker time is key, as you were say, and you’ve always set aside time for that. And almost naturally, you fall into those states. It’s quite honestly, the return coming
Alastair McDermott 19:08
from the point of view of having been a software engineer, as a software engineer, the cost of context switching. So changing between different tasks is incredibly high, because you’re trying to keep so many different details in your head. And so you really want to concentrate and this is why software people hate being interrupted by meetings and things like that, because, you know, they start out their day. They they’re just starting to get get something going and then it’s time for the like the morning coffee break or the stand up meeting or whatever. And then they’re just getting into stuff and suddenly it’s lunchtime. And then there’s a team meeting in the afternoon. It’s like they feel like they’ve gotten nothing done, because they do need that uninterrupted block of four hours, five hours, sometimes you know,
Alistair McBride 19:50
salutely and you know, it takes a good manager to know that you either have usually those meetings to you know, close Gentlemen, the start or the day or the end of the day. So that that it’s the middle time, it’s just open for them to just, you know, do their creative work? Absolutely. It’s that awareness of the maker manager versus the manager time that we talked about. Yeah,
Alastair McDermott 20:14
yeah, I also think that there’s something that you can do there to make context switching less expensive. To make it faster, you know, you can, I know that some people when they’re writing, they say, never finished at the end of a paragraph or something like that always finish with sentence because that will bring you get you back into a quicker so I guess there’s, like that you can use Yeah,
Alistair McBride 20:37
I mean, that’s an interesting one on the idea of open loops, you know, like in a lot of good marketing, there’s these open loops that, that that start at the top of say, we could storytelling, whether it’s you know, a series or a movie that they opened these loops that you want, you want close to those, the human mind wants closed stories closed loop, it’s like when you have ideas running around your head, and you have insomnia, one of the ways that you can actually usually get back to sleep, not foolproof, but it often helps is to write it down, whether in your phone or on paper. And that way, your brain goes, Oh, it’s outside, it’s now been captured, the loop is closed for the time being, I can now relax and go to sleep. But you allude to something really important there, which is the domain switching. And as he as he said, You You You’re right, even 1015 years ago, you had this and maybe software engineers have a more acute awareness of that. Because so many people don’t they think they can multitask, and their task switching all the research shows that we can’t really do that, when we have, we’re just, you know, skimming along the surface, we’re not able to go into any depth when we’re task switching. In some ways, it doesn’t matter if you’re just answering emails, you know, because the task is relatively light, depending on what you’re trying to say the email, write, resume. But with anything of any importance, this, this is the disaster of distraction. And this is really what we’re getting at here is that, you know, when, when you’re distracted, it’s costing you that depth, and that depth is the value that we need to be focusing more and more, because all the thin stuff increasingly can be done by AI. You know, this is something I’ve been saying for the last 1015 years is that we need to keep focusing on where we add the value that AI can’t replace what’s further away from what AI can replace. Right? And it is the deep work and is that creative connections, that symbiosis of different ideas and concepts and all the rest of that unique cross section of our expertise to help our clients get particularly unique results, all that sort of good stuff. That’s sort of the area that we keep needing to come back to as a question say, Well, how much of that have I actually created for for me or for my clients, today, or this week? How much have I really could have, as I said, outsource to someone, and now that outsource to someone as we go, you know, maybe we’re still at the basic levels, but how much of those things could be outsourced to AI, that could free us up to doing the deep work,
Alastair McDermott 23:10
I suspect a lot of people are actually a bit more, it’s easier to float around the thin stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah, people seek distractions, because you can also get quick wins. And you have to get quick wins, it’s harder to get a quick win when you’re working on something when you’re working on deep work. Because, by definition, it takes a long time to get anywhere, you know.
Alistair McBride 23:35
And as a lot of the people in the flow flow research heap saying, like when you get started to get into that flow state, it’s deeply uncomfortable, because you’re like, Oh, you’re trying to find your feet, it’s like Sky is skiing down a mountain. Before you’re in the zone, you’re having to feel really quite uncomfortable. But understanding that discomfort is often a signpost that you’re you’re getting in there, you’re getting there. Whereas when you’re avoiding the discomfort, then you’re not getting the value of the other end and not just the value, the feeling that this is brilliant, you’re being like in the zone, you’re being super productive and creative, and you’re making things a magnitude better than they were before, not just the little incremental improvements. And that’s really the difference is is the difference between those little increments versus these leaps. You know, that’s what we’re aiming at. That’s where we’re really we’re going for
Alastair McDermott 24:31
the other thing that we were talking about earlier, and I’m trying to make this a very smooth segue. But I don’t really know exactly how it connects. We were talking about do have B. And it’s an interesting principle and we got into a whole potentially semantic discussion, which I really hate because I think that that’s not a real argument. But let’s, let’s get into the do have b Can you tell me a little bit about that and what that means, and then we can go from there.
Alistair McBride 25:00
A couple of what, two, three weeks ago, I finished a 12 week course with a remarkable coach called Rob bank who have had twice on my podcast, you can look at all the episodes, one of them was ever episode 57 You know why performance is always spiritual. And that kind of gives you an idea of what he’s about. So he is a high performance coach in many ways, and people get these crazy good results from them, you know, like 10 axing that legendary cliche now at this stage or turning excellent business, you know, I work half the time, but they actually have done this with this guy. So I was like, fascinated, okay, this guy’s that’s why I interviewed him a number of times. And anyway, I did his coaching course. And it was a revelation, in many ways, to put it mildly. Now, there’s a lot to go into, and I won’t go into it here. But one of the things we touched on, as you said, this morning was this difference between a lot of people naturally go to do have be I need to do the work, I need to do, you know, grind through it, or, and all of this sort of stuff, the striving and the struggle, right for ages to then have whatever it is they think they need to have. And only when they have it, then will they think well, no, I am, you know, the be part. Right, then I’m generally a success, or I’m you know, can call myself an expert, you know, to go back towards closer to your domain. And in actual fact,
Alastair McDermott 26:35
this is the default state then is due to do something, then you have then you be
Alistair McBride 26:40
generally because you think, Oh, I have to do all of this stuff, before I have the credentials before I can be a My identity is that I am now whatever X, Y and Zed and an actual fact, that’s fine. And that works for people, except is usually an awful lot of struggle and stress and pain. And, and the reason for that is because you’re only able to go as far as your ego will allow. So because your ego is literally what is possible, the limitations for safety. Right. So it’s only like, within the boundaries of what incrementally you’re changing your identity from being. And that’s why where people make incremental progress. But when you see people making these giant leaps, whether in whatever human endeavor, whether it’s, you know, business, or sports or science or whatever that might be, they, they’re often doing it from the actual, they’re often doing. B do have, right, so they’re first of all, changing their actual identity. So they’re saying, you know, willing to give an example of maybe some of the listeners can relate to they’re saying things like, I am a six figure business owner, or seven, or whatever, you know, the goal is the objective the destination. And then they’re embodying what that identity is, how does someone who is literally, the other way to look at is your best self or your better self? And asking you, how would they act in this situation? How would they be? What would what would there be approach B? What were their response to that from a client? B? Right? So we’re acting not from this just doing the doing flows from the identity from who we are being? Does that make sense? Yeah, this is like, in a short term way, that way that, like, I tell clients, you know, don’t try and learn scripts, you know, It’s same with say, you know, if they’re direct and sales, and the worst thing is, is learning scripts. Why? Because you don’t sound authentic, because you’re embodying effing scripts, someone else’s lines, which may work for them, but it’s you doing someone else’s words, and it doesn’t work because it’s not authentic. Whereas you need to be in that state of the classic now phrase serving, not selling, but it’s true, how are you actually helping me get to my destination, I don’t care about you, I don’t care about your margins, I care about you. The only reason I’m talking to you, as a salesperson, is to help me get where I want to go. That’s it. And if I feel that you care about that, and that you genuinely want to help me get there, then then you know, the prices and all these sort of things are far less of an issue. That’s the that’s the salesperson or consultant or whatever, who can charge those premium prices because they feel absolutely understood number one, but they feel this person really has as you the phrase used to use just like Jay Abraham, the both of us got it from Jay. You know, the food judiciary responsibility that you put the client’s needs ahead of your own immediate economic needs, where you’re thinking long term. Why? Because if you’re serving them, they’re not trying to get rid of you and out the door. You’re now the trusted advisor. You’re their expert here. They’re even up to some points calm confidant, right? And that’s the position where most consultants and business people, entrepreneurs and whatnot want to be with their clients. But it starts from the being, don’t you know, oh, hey, how do I? How do I come across? As, you know, answer? How do we come across as confident, competent? How do we come across as their ally that I’m under? You? You feel it in your identity, you tap into that actual real emotional sense that I, how do I care for this person? How do I do I genuinely believe I can make this person’s business better and solve their problem? Bring them to the destination they want? Yes. So tell them why do I do that? Because I’ve done it for this person, this person in certain aspects before. That’s the emotional resonance we need. That’s part of the identities, the feeling of that identity, right? It’s not just a cold, intellectual thing. It’s the feeling of that identity, just like, you know, how would on my best day, how would I have reacted to this scenario, that’s then moving from the identity, you’re moving into action. And it’s not like we’re saying we sit in the cushion up a mountain, and you know, just be things the whole time. But that’s not what I’m saying at all. I say you, and this is Rob Beggs. Thinking, which I’m adapting, you know, making my own as well. But it’s mostly ralbag. So, but I am living this stuff at the moment. So I’ve been hugely productive in those 12 weeks, and since, and a whole load range of products of projects that have been sitting on the shelf, you know, or been sort of tapping off, but not really going hardcore. And that’s what’s changed for me is that you’re acting from a sense of identity, this is who I am. So I’m doing this now. Why? Because that’s what a six or seven figure, entrepreneur slash coach slash we still would be doing. And you don’t need to think there’s far less barriers, you’re just acting from a sense of who you are this this newer, I better sense identity, and it’s still authentically you. Right? It still is,
Alastair McDermott 32:12
this is where we got into an argument earlier, because, to me, what this sounds like you’re saying is fake it till you make it?
Alistair McBride 32:20
Ah, you see, and we one of the from talking this through beforehand. Or the fake it till you make it is when you know, when you’re feeling really confident, like genuinely confident you’re feeling like yes, I’m really contributing to the client. That mean, it was really helpful. They got a new understanding, and then they get clarity on the destination. And they felt my devalue I brought and it was all just great in so many ways. Great, that’s when you are authentically being that better version of yourself. If that’s if you feel like you know, you’re on an upward improvement slip, right? Great. When you have suddenly then those setbacks where you feel the dreaded imposter syndrome, that’s where you fall out of that identity. And in actual fact, feel like you are a fake. And this is where the fake it till you make it because what the fake as you make it is, is oh, just stay in that impostor syndrome, because one day you will be right, just just keep doing, keep doing and one day you’ll be and feel better. Yeah. You need to be that identity, tap back into that sense that belief, right. And we’re going to use the dreaded word faith here. Because you know, phases have a lot of wild connotations here. But we have faith, we have automatic faith in something, right? Either we have faith in ourselves that we’re going to deliver, or we have faith that this may or may not work out. There’s a huge love, it’s a 5050 thing and probability or the fact that Oh, I will be found out if you’re really embracing the imposter syndrome. And that’s the point you feel like it’s reality. By the definition of faith, as you feel the belief is true. It’s just another label, belief, indicating reality, there’s a great book on the site, a whole collections of scientific research around expectations call the expectation effect on the scientific level, right? So of research, psychological and sociological phenomenon, randomness, right? And it’s called the expectation effect. excellent book. And basically, it’s summed up by this that people don’t get what they deserve. They don’t get what they need, and they don’t even get what they want. They get deep down what they truly believe and expect to get. So if you move that expectation, then you’re resetting where the destination is where you really think you’re going.
Alastair McDermott 34:52
Okay, so to try and summarize or put a bow around that really it it comes back to I don’t know, is it self belief? Trusting? I mean, for me, as an engineer, I would prefer to say trust the process rather than have faith. That’s just my kind of Absolutely.
Alistair McBride 35:10
I would have before I would have before, but I’ve gotten more comfortable with that language. But the point is, we’re still talking about pretty much the same stuff.
Alastair McDermott 35:19
Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so we’re talking about in the context of this podcast, and people who I’m talking to, where they don’t, they don’t already have a profile. They’re really great at what they do. But they don’t have much of a profile. So they don’t have much of a reputation. You know, they’re not an influencer. But they want to get to that place. Now, they probably would not use the word influencer. In fact, that would probably be a negative, that’s but they want to use that word. They want to get to a place of being a recognized authority. Again, another word, some people like some people don’t as thought leader. But that idea that you’re already an expert in your field. And the next step is, is to be an expert, who’s an acknowledged expert. And that acknowledgement. So it’s interesting where you’re going with that? Because I think some of what you’re talking about there is an internal acknowledgement,
Alistair McBride 36:19
right? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, we all have, we all know that person was excellent what they do, but they don’t even realize how special it is. And that’s really quite nice. And it’s almost charming, in that they’re quite naive about how brilliant they are at this thing. And that’s often you know, because they just, it comes quite easy to them. It’s the Dunning Kruger effect, you know, that beginners think they’re better than they are at something and experts, because they know so much. They also know all the gaps between their knowledge and the imperfections in their knowledge, which people at a beginner intermediate level really aren’t aware of. So that’s where they actually do gray or downgrade their level of expertise. But it is the ability to realize, as I said that that sense of identity that I am sufficiently expert that you can, one of the ways I do this with clients, when when they’re in a negotiation often because, you know, they’re feeling lesser than as you know, it’s called Goliath for a reason, because they’re feeling like the David party, in the struggle or in the interaction is that you start get deal with facts. So yes, you know, I grabbed the identity and all that sort of stuff. And I’m not saying this isn’t wishful thinking, right? There’s a big difference, though. That would be really great to be Oh, I love that. It’s like, yes, but be that work on us build that. But you’ll probably look back and go, Oh, that’s kind of what I’ve been doing. But I’ve been looking at it in a different light. Okay, because you’re saying, I’ll be I’ll feel like that expert at the end of the journey. And I’m saying no, no, you bring that sense that yes, you’re on this upward curve. Yes, you’re building to this destination where you’re getting better and better and better. But again, think of it that almost a cliche, but it’s so true. The Robert Roger Bannister, right ran the four minute mile 1950 something or other. Everyone said it wasn’t possible. There were medical people saying your heart will explode if we go that fast if it’s even possible right? After he did it, first of all, he and reading the story is quite interesting, because he envisioned it. He said, I believe it’s possible. But then he used logic, not just pie in the sky. So he went, Well, it means each mile I need to be going at this speed and okay, and then he trained for the first one to do that. And he trained that the second that he’d be able to hit that. And so we built up to it. It wasn’t just like a one day he turned up and did this amazing thing no one had ever done before. That’s again, the thin reading we were talking about thin where it gets a bit deeper on the stuff already. Right. But the point was he had to envision at first I think it’s possible loads of people telling me so I think it’s possible, but sweet envision that version that I’m the person who can I think it is possible for humanity number one, and then it’s possible for me, right? So this is what he was doing amazing stuff. But this was the key point once he done it. What was it for eight people within a couple of months I’ve done it again. It’s still not an easy thing to do. But you know, college athletes regularly do this right? Okay, knowing
Alastair McDermott 39:25
knowing as possible is different.
Alistair McBride 39:29
Exactly. Because then it’s to a certain extent is the difference between you know, writing Stairway to Heaven being able to play Stairway to Heaven once it’s there it’s still amazingly able to do it. But it’s not right in the thing okay, but but this okay, it’s not not a perfect analogy, but it’s the same sort of thing with you’re not at the end again, you set insane bell to win. You know the to win the medal and to break the world records. He was still on that path beforehand. Lee Take up to it all the time, every day he was being that identity of the person who is most likely to win the battle and break the world record. But he’s doing that, like when he was 16, when he’s 18, when he was 20 until he won the thing until he broke that record. So same identity all the way through. So
Alastair McDermott 40:20
so this be do have wondering, is this also why some people? Some people see. So I guess there’s this line between confidence and arrogance. Yeah. And I think that it, maybe it’s unfair. But I think that we could say that a lot of successful people are kind of borderline into that arrogance. And it’s maybe it’s just really super strong self belief. And when you’re viewing somebody with that kind of self, super, super confidence, and you’re not feeling that about yourself, maybe you can feel it that goes over into arrogance. But it just strikes me that maybe that’s maybe that’s the same thing. It’s that self belief.
Alistair McBride 41:05
There’s two sides of it. One is itself belief that comes across as arrogance, but they’re actually just so like, this is what I’m about, as you said, it fires your insecurities, or is it delusional? You know, because equally, you have huge amount of successful people who’ve done these amazing leaps. But they’re actually have a nice level of humility about it. So it wasn’t a big deal. And it reminds me a little bit of Trevor Tom Hanks and Apollo 13. He says, I think it is to his wife or to his kid, they’re sitting there looking at the moon, from the backyard. And he says them, you know, it is amazing. But in actual fact, we just decided to go to the moon, like as in, it’s a decision, they big decision on getting up. They decided it was possible, then they worked out how to do it. And then they did it. Because they were at this point, they had to envision it and believe it was possible first before they can do it. Equally, you need to be that person. I can be like Usain Bolt didn’t suddenly only believed he could be the record holder when he finally broke the record. No, he believed he could do it all the way along because he was being it, doing it and all that until he finally had it. But he didn’t change. He’s that person. That was the point. So this is how you make these these leaps. Yes, incremental, amazing achievements. But also then what seemed to other people to be these huge leaps, because you are that person that is inherent in your identity. And the easiest way you can start tapping into you and your best day, we all remember, when we when we cast our mind back, where we just did a blinder as we say, you know, or just sailed our expectations were we were in the zone, you know, we were able to just feel that otherwise, really awkward question and turn it around to an amazing insight for the for the client where they’re like, Wow, I never thought of it like that, you know. And again, they got huge value, and you’re feeling super, they’re feeling super well that they brought you in, and this is a great decision. Yeah. All that sort of stuff. tap into that energy. Again, I don’t want to sound too woowoo here, but it is that emotional state of that identity that we’re talking about. And act from there.
Alastair McDermott 43:29
So the question is, on your best day, what would you do?
Alistair McBride 43:33
Right best day? How would you act? What would you do? How would you be thinking about this?
Alastair McDermott 43:38
Out? We’re gonna have to leave it there. But I want to ask you, when is when is the book coming out?
Alistair McBride 43:45
That is an excellent question. And I have to ask my editor, and we’re nearly there. We’re nearly there. It is. Look, I know I can keep adding stuff and a great, you can,
Alastair McDermott 43:59
by the way, to
Alistair McBride 44:00
Steve Gordon, exactly who the million dollar book has been assisting me for a long time now endlessly patient and hugely insightful. If anyone’s interested in a book, talk to Alastair McDermott, and talk to Steve Gordon, because it’s an excellent way of building authority. You thought you’d
Alastair McDermott 44:20
listen to episode 71, which is write a book in 30 days with Steve Gordon,
Alistair McBride 44:25
amazing stuff 3030 to 90 days, but you can’t do it in 30 days.
Alastair McDermott 44:29
Yeah, you can do it. I mean, I know it can be done. Because when I looked at my spreadsheet of have my word count. I didn’t do it in 30 consecutive days. But I did write it in 30 days of work, so it can be done.
Alistair McBride 44:43
You go well, I’ve taken a lot longer, but that was my fault. Not that yours or Steve Gordon’s fault.
Alastair McDermott 44:49
Okay, so, so well, I just want to mention that you do have an email list and interest list for the book, which I will include in the show notes if anybody’s interested. Just Just tell us tell The give us just a quick, quick spiel on the book, the title and subtitle and what it’s about.
Alistair McBride 45:07
Well, absolutely, it’s the first of all, you can find the, depending on when you’re listening to this, it’ll either be the interest list to get some free goodies and all sorts of things. Al mcbride.com/book, that’s McBride or Almagro al MCB Ry d.com/book. And so the interest is or you know, a free copy of the book, it will be available, of course, on Kindle, and if you want to a real copy in your hand, but some people are happy to read PDFs. Personally, they irritate me a little bit, but just because they’re a little bit awkward, but there will be a free copy available there for people who want it. Because I want people to read it, take it, share it, send it to people that you think could get value out of it. It’s called dealing with the life the psychological edge of negotiation for business owners, create rapid report prosper under pressure and uncover hidden value in every deal. And it brings in a lot of the concepts, I suppose we’ve been talking about today, but maybe more focus, obviously are more on the direct concepts that we were talking about in our previous episode, previous chat. But all of this stuff is the same stuff. It’s about embodying these better states to be in a better emotional position, to be able to feel the questions and roll and feel that we can compete and not be pushed around we can get the value and so that we can give the value we can get that. By us being our better selves, we can actually make our counterpart be their better selves. And there’s a lot about that in the book. That’s one of the great areas that I probably most interested in, most proud of in the book.
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