Al McBride 0:00
Welcome to the dealing with Goliath podcast. The mission of dealing with Goliath is to sharpen the psychological edge in business leaders with skin in the game, who want to be more effective under pressure, uncover hidden value and increase profitability.

Al McBride 0:13
With expert guests across the business spectrum. We deliver a gems of wisdom, delving into their methods, their thinking and approach to business life and problem solving. This is the double espresso shot of insight through our short interview format, with five questions in around about 15 minutes.

Al McBride 0:31
I’m your host Al McBride, and my guest today is Cindy shoes. For those who don’t know, Cindy, Cindy shows, coaches and consultants how to stand out in this noisy online world by marketing with hype. Well, the other way with marketing with heart rather than hype.

Al McBride 0:52
I was just gonna talk to you on hype because I was listening to your previous work on talking about hype, so we’ll be asking you that in a minute. It’s stuck in my head. She brings a decade of marketing experience working for such companies as Coca Cola and visa combined with a decade of online marketing to create a paradigm shift and how marketing can be done with integrity and heart.

Al McBride 1:15
One of our greatest gifts is helping our clients soar through their brain dump of ideas so they can find the golden nuggets to make them shine in their own unique way. So Cindy, welcome to the Goliath podcast. Great to have you here.

Cindy Schulson 1:31
Thank you so much. It’s great to be here.

Al McBride 1:34
It’s great to have you here. Where are you joining us from today.

Cindy Schulson 1:39
I am in San Diego, California,

Al McBride 1:41
sunny San Diego, California where it never rains. It’s beautiful all the time. That’s the mystique never made it there, I hope to one day after after COVID. So excellent. Great to have you here. Great to have you. So let’s dive straight in. So who is your ideal client, and what’s the biggest challenge that they face?

Cindy Schulson 2:04
My ideal client is a coach who has a foundation of success in their business or their career. But they struggle to communicate what they do in a way that attracts their ideal, but also builds that relationship of trust. So it’s really hard to get your ideal clients attention in a noisy online world. And it’s really important to build that trust. So I showed him how to do both of those things.

Al McBride 2:31
That’s fabulous. And it’s in that building a trust. And I can’t say just the word that really jumped out there, as you could tell was, was the heart versus hype? And, you know, I would imagine that’s because the next question I was going to ask you is what are some of the common mistakes people make when trying to solve that problem? But I’d imagine that’s a big part of it. Is it where people end up falling into this hype? And then it doesn’t feel right, it doesn’t feel right to most people.

Cindy Schulson 3:05
Yeah, so the biggest problem going back to, you know, what I help people with is being able to communicate their message effectively and authentically. And that’s part of overcoming the hype. That’s a small part of it, there’s so many strategies, and we can talk about some other ones as well.

Cindy Schulson 3:24
But I think the number one problem, and I’m sure you’ve seen this too, for so many coaches is being able to create that captivating message. That’s really clear, that’s really authentic, that’s concise, that’s unique. There’s so many criteria. And I think there’s like two big reasons that they struggle with it is first is that they try to get into the words before they have clarity.

Cindy Schulson 3:51
So, you know, we all want to we all want to get to the you know, A to Zed, but we all want to go right there to the end. And we have to start at the beginning. And so I really helped coaches put that strategic foundation in place. And it starts with really knowing who is that ideal client?

Cindy Schulson 4:06
What is the problem, you help themselves, what’s the transformation you help them create? And until you have that clarity, you can’t even begin to create an effective message. So that’s the first part. But the second part is that once they get that clarity, the message is completely from the head. It’s just very logical, like, you know, here’s my help, here’s what happened. And what’s missing is the heart.

Al McBride 4:35
Right? So it’s last, lacking that emotional resonance with people is, is that what you mean by that?

Cindy Schulson 4:42
Well, it’s a little different, in a sense, okay. So the way I look at it is that, like people buy on emotion and they justify with logic. We all know that. And so your message has to connect with people’s hearts and minds. But the key is then to put your heart and your Mind in your message.

Cindy Schulson 5:02
So I help my clients do that by creating what I call a core message, which is what you stand for in your business. That’s the heart piece, the emotional connection. And I’m happy to give you an example if you like, please, yeah. And then we we combine that core, the heart piece with the head piece, to create a message that’s really unique and authentic to them, and lets you stand out from everybody else who does what you do.

Al McBride 5:29
Okay, so it creates that very, as you said, authentic differentiation for How are you different from, as you said, all the other coaches who do that type of coaching, so you mentioned, you could give an example, I’d love to hear one?

Cindy Schulson 5:45
Yes, I actually have, I just pulled this out a new one to give an example and mess up the word. So I’ll just read one from one of my clients, Olivia. And she, first of all, to get clarity on the niche piece was about empowering professional women of color, to advance their career.

Cindy Schulson 6:06
So our core message was your ability to excel in your career shouldn’t be determined by how others see you, but by how you see yourself, which I thought was so powerful. And then we infuse that into her marketing message. So we combine them artfully.

Cindy Schulson 6:23
And her magnetic message is I empower professional women of color to confidently advance their career while staying true to who they are. And I just think it’s so beautiful. And it’s not just a career coach, A it’s really focused on her ideal client, but B it incorporates her unique stand for her client.

Al McBride 6:44
And I love the end part without losing that sense of who you are and what you’re about. Because it’s just I can imagine if it was just the earlier part, people that people might have that little bit of resistance. Oh, but I don’t want to be someone I’m not, you know. So it just balances beautifully back up on that other end, it’s like, now I got to be authentic. That’s, that’s fantastic.

Cindy Schulson 7:08
Yeah. And to me, it’s like, you know, if you just want to see what people want to hear, you know, you want to also say what you want to say like you want to speak your true voice.

Cindy Schulson 7:17
So I always think, you know, if I wanted to just say what my ideal clients want to hear, I would stay in corporate, you know, I be able to speak my truth. And I want to empower my clients to speak their truth. Because when you do, then you attract the people who really are more aligned with you

Al McBride 7:33
very much very much. So with that idea of speaking your truth. And speaking from a place of authenticity, they’re kind of tapping into the next question, which is, you know, what is one valuable free action that an audience can implement that will help them with that issue. So it won’t fully solve the problem, but at least it’ll point them in the right direction?

Cindy Schulson 7:56
Sure. So when I help my clients discover their core message, there’s about six different questions I asked them, but I’ll share one of my favorites with you. Which is I want you to imagine that you have like a roomful of your ideal clients just sitting in front of you.

Cindy Schulson 8:10
And you have just a few seconds to say something to them, that will shift their perspective that will get them to think about their problem in a different way. Hmm, what do you want them to know? And that can be the heart of your core message?

Al McBride 8:26
Wow. That’s quite a question. And do people find that very difficult? Because I’d imagine they have, you know, there’s like 12 things are they want to say? or do other people struggle and have like, I don’t know what to say at all? Or how does that usually break down for people?

Cindy Schulson 8:46
Well, that’s why I take like six different questions to me, like I like nobody talks about finding the golden nuggets, right. So it’s about finding the patterns. So when we can come at it from different angles, you’ll find a pattern. And that’s the heart. That’s how we can pull up the core message.

Al McBride 9:02
fabulous, fabulous stuff. Excellent. And what is one valuable free resource that you can direct people to that will help them with discovery now.

Cindy Schulson 9:14
So I have a free brand message template that goes into more detail about the core message and the magnetic message with some and there’s also a bonus training video that shows you how to use your message to attract your ideal clients. So people can get that at brand message template comm can download it and get access to the free training as well.

Al McBride 9:36
Excellent, this free training with it also. That’s fabulous. Thank you very much that that’s very generous of you. So what’s the one question that I should have asked to that would have been a great value to the audience?

Cindy Schulson 9:53
That’s a great question. So um, you know, when we think about messaging, we think about just that marketing right? But to me, every word you speak or write is your message. So we have to really be able to communicate effectively, including how you’re going to help your clients create that transformation.

Cindy Schulson 10:12
So, you know, it’s one thing to say, Okay, here’s the transformation, I’m going to help you create, but to really build trust that you can help them create that transformation, it’s really important that you can communicate the steps you’re going to take with your clients to help them get from where they are, to where they want to be. So I call that your client journey.

Cindy Schulson 10:33
Other people call it a signature system, I really like to think about it as the client journey, because it’s focused on the client. And it’s a journey you take together, it’s not just a system you plug people into, you know, yeah, we have to first get clarity is always starts with clarity, you know, where are they now? Where do they want to be?

Cindy Schulson 10:52
What are the steps you’re going to take to get them there, and then how to streamline and communicate that really effectively. And that becomes actually what I love about the client journey is, that’s what you’re going to sell, whether it’s one on one or in a group, or whatever the case might be.

Cindy Schulson 11:07
But it also becomes the core of what you teach. Because to me what to really build trust with your ideal clients, you have to show them that you can help them and that you care about helping them. And so it’s one thing, as I said, to just say, here’s how I can help you.

Cindy Schulson 11:22
And it’s another thing to prove it by showing them the steps you’re going to take them through and the results they get at each step. So I teach my client journey, and I show my clients how to use their client journey in their marketing. So they can build that relationship of trust and inspire people to want to work with them.

Al McBride 11:42
So yeah, what I really loved about what you were saying there, Cindy was right at the start of that you were pointing out how it’s important for your clients to meet theirs, where they are not where the coaches and that’s often a mistake that you hear a lot, you know, there’s a lot of assumptions. Whereas as you said, it’s important to meet them where they’re at. And that way you can bring them on that journey. That’s a great point.

Cindy Schulson 12:09
Yeah, that’s a really, that’s a really important point too, because like, you know, we talked about entering the conversation going on in your ideal client said, it’s hard because you’re the expert, like, you know, so much. And we have to remember that we have to step into where your client is.

Cindy Schulson 12:24
And sometimes it’s not the first step on the client journey. Sometimes there’s some pre work that has to be done before we can even you know, start working with them. But they don’t know about that pre work yet. That’s not part of their consciousness yet. So in other words, they might identify a problem.

Cindy Schulson 12:43
And then you have to explain and teach why they’re having that problem. So when you teach your client journey, so you meet them where they’re at, by hooking them in with the problem they want to solve, but then you teach how to help solve that problem, through your marketing by teaching your client journey.

Cindy Schulson 13:03
And then when by the time they come to a consultation with you, or whatever, they already understand how you can help them. So it’s not like you have to do any convincing or anything, they’re aligned with your strategy with your approach. And then it’s simply a matter of exploring how you can best support them with that.

Al McBride 13:21
That’s a that’s a beautiful thing. It’s, it’s very much demonstrating and showing rather than just telling, which makes a huge difference. Yeah, as you said, it’s very much in line with what you were saying that it. It’s it’s a heartfelt and very authentic approach. I would imagine, maybe a way off here, but I’d imagine that the coaches themselves really get far more inspired to market as an activity, because most people really dislike most of marketing, you must turn a lot of people around in their opinion of marketing.

Cindy Schulson 13:58
That’s the best part. I had a client Amy who said like she went from just taking marketing realizing that it’s a natural extension of her sharing her passion, you know, and so and her purpose, so it’s just it to me, it’s like marketing is really just sharing your message with the right people.

Cindy Schulson 14:17
So they’re inspired to take action. So we have to know what our message is, who the right people are in what action we want them to take. And that’s it’s as simple as that. Like, I think we overcomplicate things a lot, I know I have a tendency to do that, too. So I try to always like, pull it back to the basics and keep it simple.

Al McBride 14:36
In line with us, as simple things for people to take action on. If people want to know a bit more about you or connect with you, where can they do that? where’s the best place?

Cindy Schulson 14:47
Oh, so many options. You can go I have a marketing with heart Facebook group, they can check me out there. chat with me on Facebook. I’m the only Cindy Schulson on Facebook. I am amazed by that. Yeah. And of course they can go To my website marketing from within.com.

Al McBride 15:03
Excellent stuff. Well thank you for your time. And thank you for being so generous with all of your thoughts today.

Cindy Schulson 15:09
Thank you so much for having me. It was wonderful.

Al McBride 15:12
Thank you, Sandy.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai